1zz/2zz canbus for dash

Support for EMU BLACK device
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shnazzle
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:06 pm

1zz/2zz canbus for dash

Post by shnazzle » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:17 pm

I noticed in the latest test software that there is full support for the Lotus 2zz cable throttle dash over CAN.

Am I right in thinking the only differences between the Lotus and Toyota implementations are the plugs?

And as the 2zz-ge OEM ecu plugs directly into the plugs for the 1zz-fe loom (couple wires different for 02/tps and VVTL-i), am I to assume that functionality can be added quite easily to make the EMU Black speak to the dash in a Toyota MR2 Roadster with 1zz-fe?

gregpe
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:19 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 1zz/2zz canbus for dash

Post by gregpe » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:36 pm

HI
We are dealing with MR2 owners club here in UK and next week i will be able to detailed answer your questions

shnazzle
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: 1zz/2zz canbus for dash

Post by shnazzle » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:22 pm

gregpe wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:36 pm
HI
We are dealing with MR2 owners club here in UK and next week i will be able to detailed answer your questions
Hi Greg,

We haven't met (yet) but I run that club :)
Happy to see you on here and look forward to the results.

I posted this before Carolyn was booked in with you.

Good luck and see you soon

Patrick

shnazzle
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: 1zz/2zz canbus for dash

Post by shnazzle » Tue May 01, 2018 11:23 pm

The plot thickens.
So it seems a lot (or all) of the 1zz/2zz cars don't actually use CAN to transmit certain sensor data but uses the Toyota BEANs network instead.

No chance

BillyC
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:32 pm

Re: 1zz/2zz canbus for dash

Post by BillyC » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:57 pm

This might help clear some things up as far as functionality required for the 1zz-fe ECU in the MR2. I grabbed this spreadsheet and made a copy so I could alter it for the EMU Black setup. Haven't finished yet but I think the EMU Black actually has a little less functionality than the the AEM EMS4 shown in this document although both standalone systems might require a stock ECU to be run in parallel.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I don't know the current owner and main contributor of this spreadsheet but it was a lot of work and whomever it is deserves the credit.

shnazzle
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: 1zz/2zz canbus for dash

Post by shnazzle » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:10 pm

Greg at RRR has now installed the Black on one of our MR2s and has had to keep the stock ECU for a variety of reasons.

The only outstanding functionality is idle-up on A/C. But that's my problem for wanting A/C :) :)
Having said that, the idle control strategy covers that nicely anyway once it detects the RPMs being lower than expected when I switch on A/C. I have had no idling issues.

In order to do a full ECU replacement;
- aftermarket digital dash.
- manual A/C control unit, if applicable (MonkeyWrenchRacing sell one for the K20 conversion)
- remove immobiliser and alarm and install aftermarket replacement
- not sure about the ABS ecu. I think the EMB can work with it. I will figure this out soon as I want to apply the traction control, which requires the wheel speeds.
- I think that's it...

But if the spreadsheet helps dissect the odd Toyota signals, all the better.

BillyC
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:32 pm

Re: 1zz/2zz canbus for dash

Post by BillyC » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:04 am

The dash is probably the biggest problem because it uses Toyota's BEAN network. There is someone out there working on this now and Apexi cracked years ago. Apexi is one of the only pnp standalone for the MR2 and Celica among others. Hydra must have figured it out too because they also have one but it's less popular and I'm not sure it controls everything. I don't have any doubts that the EMU black has the hardware and software capability to control it but developing that on the ECUmaster end of things would take tons of resources. What someone needs to make in an Arduino or something to take a few pwm or analog 0-5 inputs and feed the BEAN network everything it wants. This is the dude I was thinking of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-wnc-JXiNc
He seems to be on to something.

For the AC I was planning on isolating the stock ecu from the engine by feeding an input on the EMU Black from the clutch output on the MR2 ECU as the "Switch" and let the EMU control the Idle and Fans. This will also allow the EMU to turn the clutch off above certain throttle positions and engine speeds or in case of an overheat scenario.

There are also a few other odds and ends to button up to make it a full swap even besides what you listed but I'll have to go check my notes.

shnazzle
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: 1zz/2zz canbus for dash

Post by shnazzle » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:55 pm

The apexi did come to mind. It's still a bit of a go-to in the MR2 Roadster community for this reason. I opted against it for the lack of knock control, and frankly everything else EMB does that the PFC doesn't.
I wonder if they worked with Toyota directly as I can't help but think that reverse engineering BEAN and then marketing a product based on that has some legal ramifications.
Possibly not at all. If it's an openly documented protocol it would just be a case of designing a solution that uses it, as you say.

I think what I'm getting at is; instead of reverse engineering and translating signals, is there an "API" equivalent that can be used?
I guess not, otherwise it'd be solved by now by all the main ECU suppliers.

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