Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

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Jeepster
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am
Location: Germany/NRW

Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

Post by Jeepster » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:24 pm

Hi all,

want to pimp my old Jeep Wrangler (1988 4.2 inline 6)

This car has a flywheel with an unused Renault Alpine 66-2-2-2 trigger pattern. I would like to use it for the EMU.
OEM hall sensor is available.

My question:
is ist possible to make wasted Spark and full seq-injection with this trigger in combination with a 1 tooth cam sensor?

TDC of the first is at the 11th tooth after "a" gap. regarding max advance I decide to use the first tooth in this section as trigger tooth (60 degrees angle). The second or third tooth are possible too but calculates to no integer degrees 54.54 and 49.1 degrees.

whereupon do I have to pay attention at regarding ignition events and injection events?
Firing order 153624

hoping for some good suggestions :)
Michael

Karel
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Location: Czech Republic
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Re: Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

Post by Karel » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:53 am

Its possible to run wastespark. You still need the cam sensor. If you have crank and cam sync, you can run full sequential injection.

Jeepster
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am
Location: Germany/NRW

Re: Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

Post by Jeepster » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:25 pm

ok, thank you. I'll try it this weekend - perhaps.
Think I will adjust cam Sensor between OT-tooth and trigger-tooth. It is adjustable in my Jeep.

Jeepster
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am
Location: Germany/NRW

Re: Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

Post by Jeepster » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:14 pm

no success until now :(

installed OEM-style crank and cam sensors. got stable signals from both.
cam/crank synchronisation seems to be good.

after connecting a wasted spark coil (6cyl) I get sparks, but Timing is worse. Can't see a hit on the timingmark, even with 60 degr. adjustable strobo. ..even not on the 2 other wasted spark channels.
changed indexing due to adjustable cam sensor. no chance! sometimes firing into the intake.

In scope I only can see one tooth per section in the prime trigger!?? the other 19 were gone...
scope_66_2_2_2_20171116_195.emuscp
(74 Bytes) Downloaded 17 times
Test with config for multitooth 60 shows the loosen 60 ticks from the tooth - sensor and wiring seems ok!
scope_Multi_60_20171116_1838.emuscp
(430 Bytes) Downloaded 16 times
think I made a mistake in the config!?
Jeep_firststart.emu
(102.37 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
In EMU helpfile for Renault Alpine 66-2-2-2 there is the hint: "only with Distributor".
is this "hardcoded"?

hoping for some hints and help on this, perhaps, exotic Renault 66-2-2-2 config.
...otherwise I have to drill some holes (36) into my Damper :-(

Until now it is the first step and ignition only with a carburator. (running with Distributor some days ago)

Michael

Jeepster
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am
Location: Germany/NRW

Re: Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

Post by Jeepster » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:09 pm

In 66-2-2-2 Mode there are only 6 teeth visible in a 720 deg. scope :-(
would like to find a hidden Option to bring back all those lost teeth into my scope ;-)

tomorrow I'll drill my own triggerdamper....

Jeepster
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am
Location: Germany/NRW

Re: Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

Post by Jeepster » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:39 am

going the simple way....

36-1 drilled in Damper - <pic>

and its flying :-)
Attachments
Damper.JPG

Jeepster
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am
Location: Germany/NRW

Re: Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

Post by Jeepster » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:55 pm

perhaps it helps someone....

Renix 66-2-2-2 Trigger works with camsensor and fullseq. :-) as Karel said.

I gave this another chance - and after adjusting cam signal before the gap of section for 1. Cyl. ignition, Engine starts and runs :-)

But with 40 degree late ignition. covering this due to upping ignition map and ignition event trims in summary 40 degree car runs very smoother than with the self made 36-1 trigger on the damper.
specially car start at first gear becomes much better. Seems to be much more torque at idle....
..more teeth, less flexibility of the damper.

Trying to correct the ignition timing with "first trigger tooth" or '''trigger angle" failed with misfire :-(

If anyone have some hints I'll be glad - hello Ecumaster Team!!! ;-)
my Trigger config is attached.

happy jeepster :D
Attachments
trigger.JPG
trigger.JPG (34.07 KiB) Viewed 416 times

Karel
Posts: 400
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:58 am
Location: Czech Republic
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Re: Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

Post by Karel » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:26 pm

hmmm i have idea.
When i was using the 40-2-2 Clio Williams and

Subaru 36-2-2-2 i found this info :
Ignition system specific to Subaru engines. The signal is converted to multitooth 12 but the tooth number 0 is determined and does not depend on the camshaft synchronisation what in this case determines engine cycle

Basicly what does it mean. Your trigger will recalculate your real trigger patern to some other, you need to check in Scope. Why is it important? because you may expext that 1tooth is 360°/66, cca 6°, but it may be 360/12 so it may be 30° per tooth or other value.

So please check the scope, and then make desisions.

You can also increase the tooth count and angle until you are 180° of the mark, and then you can just set output offset 1 (or 3 deppends on the direction) in Ignition output, and you should be spot on again.

.... you trouble may be solved by many ways, you just need to understand and make it correct.

Karel
Posts: 400
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:58 am
Location: Czech Republic
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Re: Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

Post by Karel » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:27 pm

.......... well, and i agree the 12-1, 36-1, 60-2 ..... everything from this works very intuitive and easy just from start.

Jeepster
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am
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Re: Renault Alpine Trigger 66-2-2-2 Question (Jeep)

Post by Jeepster » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:16 pm

Hi Karel,

thank you for your hints.

tested some things this evening.
changed trigger angle without any result - always same ign timing!
changed 1. trigger tooth
1 - ok
2 - misfire
3 - misfire
4 - ok but same 40 degree late ignition.

..reverted to 1.

then checked an old suspicion - i thought I'm on the false 360 degree of the cycle.
With wasted spark - normaly no problem.
disabled spark and injection on cyl. 2,4 and 6 and get no combustion...
moved cam sensor 180 degree and I had a badly running 3-cylinder Engine ;-)

Now engine runs on the right cycle and I can do some things with Injection timing :-)
(But the recommendation - end of injection leads to lean lambda values - first tests)

Problem of 40 degree late ignition persists - I changed polarity of my cranksensor due to change from rising to falling gave me ca ;-) 5,45 dregree spark advance. In combination with the max value of "ignition event trims" =+35 degree I can live with this solution. Fixed advance of 30 degree is stable (tested to 3500 RPM)

my scope is attached in earlyer post in this thread.... scope shows only 6 crank triggers for one cam trigger

summed up - I am lucky with the old renix 66-2-2-2 trigger. it's more exact than my selfmade 36-1 trigger on the damper with the rubber ring.

kind regards
Michael

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